Wednesday, November 07, 2007

The Best, Off-the-Shelf Zombie Rifle

I just finished reading 'World War Z' and was googling various things to do with zombies online and I saw the most shockingly ignorant discussions everywhere about what firearms would be best employed against a zombie horde.

Machine guns, shotguns and assault rifles. This is what everyone blabs on and on about and it's all ignorant BS.

A machine gun is primarily used for covering and suppressing fire. It scares the crap out of the enemy, pinning them down and preventing them from advancing into the hail of bullets. Except that zombies don't get scared. They'll walk right into it. This would be fine if they were human enemies who could be raked down with automatic fire sweeping across the line of their chests. But it takes a headshot to kill and stop a zombie. Chest shots do nothing. You need head shots and for that you have to use careful, steady, well-aimed fire. One measured shot at a time.

So the machine gun is out. What about shotguns? I suppose that I could think of worse weapons, but there sure are better ones. I know of no commercially available shotguns that use detachable magazines or that can be loaded with stripper clips. The range is pretty limited and the ammo is bulky. This is even assuming that you are using buckshot or other loads with larger pellets. Most of the ammo you'd be likely to scrounge as the conflict goes on is birdshot that will not penetrate a zombie's cranium beyond the distance of a few yards.

A rifle is the way to go. But what kind? Lots of people like to say the M-16 or the M-4 or the AK-47. Why? Because that's what they see in action movies. All of these rifles are capable of firing fully automatic, unlike you count the fake, neutered AKs that are rebuilt onto semi-auto receivers and sold in the US as AKs. We've already established that full auto gets you nowhere against zombies, except that you'll run out of ammo faster. Then there's the pesky fact that most civilians cannot legally possess weapons capable of automatic fire in the US or most other countries. Even if you are permitted to have one, the cost is still prohibitive. It's been many, many years since any automatic weapons have been manufactured in or imported into the US for anything other than military and law enforcement use.

What you want is a semi-automatic rifle that can accept either detachable magazines or stripper clips. It must have good open sights, be durable, easily maintained under harsh conditions and chambered for a cartridge that is widely available and easily scrounged. Here's a short list of good candidates.

Ruger Mini 14
SKS
AR-15/AR-10
M1 Garand

Among these choices, the SKS is certainly the least expensive way to arm yourself for the zombie apocalypse. You can still get them for as little as $150 at gun shows or wholesale. I've spent enough time with my SKS to confidently say that it will shoot minute-of-zombie-head out to 150 yards. I usually get 3 inch groups at 100 yards. That won't win you any shooting contests but it will get you well inside of a zombie's head at that range. Beyond 150 yards, few people would be capable of making a head shot under battlefield conditions with open sights regardless of the rifle they were using.

For an all-around battle rifle that will be used at various ranges, you really don't want a scope on there. It will get knocked out of zero and be easily damaged. It's also much harder to shoot a scoped rifle while you are running or otherwise on the move. You're going to need good open sights. Preferably ones that are visible in low light, like the flip-up tritium night sights on the Yugoslavian SKS.

A neutered, semi-automatic AK would work just as well as an SKS. It fires the exact same cartridge with the same rate of fire and the same level of accuracy. With the added bonus of costing twice as much as the SKS. If you already have an AK, great. But if you were out looking to buy weapons specifically for a zombie threat then you should save your money and but the SKS. You can even get detachable 30 round magazines for the SKS if you care to do some minor gunsmithing in order to be able to use them. But I think that one would be better off using 10 round stripper clips with the SKS for the sake of reduced weight and thus more actual ammunition being carried. All of those aftermarket folding stocks and other goodies for the AK are also available for the SKS. Really, the AK variants available in the US have absolutely no advantage over the SKS.

The ARs are great rifles but they are expensive. Generally chambered for .223, both the AR-15 and the Ruger Mini 14 allow you to carry a lot of ammo with relatively little weight as opposed to the weight and volume demands of the M1 Garand and it's 30-'06 cartridge, which is the largest cartridge ever designated for a primary battle rifle by any military in the world, ever. I dearly love the 30-'06, but M1s have gotten pretty expensive due to collector demand and between that cost and the fact that I couldn't carry as much ammo as with the 7.62x39 or the .223, I'd have to pass it up.

Again, like the neutered AK, if you already have an M1 Garand then use it. You've already sunk in the $800-$1,500 that an M1 will set you back these days. 30-'06 is still the most popular deer cartridge in America and you will be able to buy or scrounge it everywhere. I just wouldn't recommend it to someone who was presently unarmed and trying to decide what to buy.

Between the .223 and the 7.62x39 cartridges, you've got to consider the fact that 7.62x39 is currently the least expensive centerfire ammunition available in America. Both will do the trick with head shots within 150 yards. Which of course are the only shots that really count with zombies. Meanwhile, .223 is on the expensive and scarce side presently due to the very high demand of the American military for this ammunition. If you were looking to stockpile non-corrosive ammo in the near future, 7.62x39 is the way to go.

All of this leads me to the conclusion that the SKS is the smartest weapon to purchase for all-purpose zombie killing. There are better tools for more specialized roles, but if you might have to go from urban warfare to making your way through the countryside for hundreds of miles to defending a fortified position, the SKS is the best way to do that on a typical budget of a few hundred dollars. Sure, it would be a good idea to have a handgun as a backup and a heavy, edged weapon for those moments when you are out of ammo. But one of the semiautomatic rifles that I have described here should be the most basic weapon that every serious zombie killer will use.

29 comments:

Cargosquid said...

Why such a large round on slow moving targets? The SKS is a heavy rifle. Fast moving rounds like a .22 magnum or .177 HMR, with solid slugs should penetrate the zombie's skull and bounce around. Portability, huge ammo availability, low recoil, rapid target acquisition.

But there is something to the idea of just blasting away with a .50 .......

MB said...

Just add this to the end, and it's perfect.

Jack Landers said...

Cargosquid,

Those are good rounds but I have not seen any experiments with those cartridges on targets similar to a human/zombie cranium at ranges out to 150 yards. These are varmint cartridges you are talking about. If they really do have the juice and don't end up deflecting across the dome of the skull or failing to fully penetrate, then great.

Heck, there are plenty of cartridges that would do a better job than those I have suggested. 22-250 is one. Any of the bajillions of short-fat magnum varmint cartridges that get along with bullets on the heavy side would probably perform admirably.

But a great cartridge only gets you halfway there. You have to look at the rifles chambered for these cartridges. How many battle rifles suitable for prolonged combat under a variety of field conditions are chambered for .22 magnum? Not a whole hell of a lot. Remember that we need an autoloader that can be reloaded very quickly, will hold up to lots of dirt and abuse without jamming and has decent open sights.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather not spend weeks fighting my way to an evacuation point through heavily infested zombie country while armed only with some clean-barreled varmint rifle, regardless of what it's chambered for.

You might have some better options with .17 HMR since that round has become so popular over the last few years. Maybe a Ruger 10/22? (or is it called the 10/17 when it's chambered for .177 HMR?) You'd have to spend a lot of money on spare magazines, as there's no such thing as stripper clips for the 10/22.

I still think that most people would be better off with the SKS, though. The larger round is inexpensive and can do double duty against threats like roving gangs of humans who are taking advantage of the chaos to commit violent crimes or set themselves up as warlords or something.

As for the weight, an unaltered SKS weighs about 8.8 pounds. You can remove the grenade launcher and grenade sights easily enough to reduce weight. Lots of people also remove the bayonet, but in a zombie survival situation that bayonet might start to look pretty good to you (a jab through the Z's eye socket into the brain?). If you really want to get it down under 7 pounds, you could always get one of those fiberforce skeletal stocks and drop the action in there.

Battle rifles are usually kind of heavy because they are built to withstand abusive battle conditions that most sporting rifles are not. Good luck finding a .177 HMR with a bayonet. A Chevy Corvette is faster and handles better than a Jeep Wrangler, but if the sh*t hits the fan I'd rather be driving the Jeep.

Boxer said...

I think the semi-auto or pump shotty would meet the criteria for zombie destruction. No you don't have stripper clips but you can get tube extension and some of them can hold 8-10 shells. With slugs, you can reach out greater than 50 yds for head shots. I don't think the shotty would trump the SKS, but it would be comparable. But only w/slugs. Buckshot or any other shot would have too much spread to do much good out past 25yds or so.

Jack Landers said...

Boxer,

You could make it with a shotgun. Maybe. But if you were surrounded by a couple dozen zombies, all shambling right for you with your back to the wall, the (long) time it takes to reload a tubular magazine could be fatal. There you are, sliding them in one by one. Having 8 shots is great and all, but then that's it. It's not like dealing with a gang of humans where the rest might run after a few are hit. If 10 zombies come for you and you shoot 8, numbers 9 and 10 will not pause to reconsider their careers.

There's just no potential for a sustained rate of fire with the shotguns that are actually on the market. Not like with rifles utilizing detachable magazines or stripper clips where you can fully reload in 2 to 4 seconds.

Gringo_Malo said...

Jack,

Want cheap ammo? Want lightweight ammo? Want to fire it from a rifle known for utter reliability?

Get a semi-auto AK in 5.45x39mm. AIM surplus has the ammo dirt cheap. J & G is still advertising the Romanian WASR-2 for $350. Get one now before the dollar falls any lower.

Cory Capron said...

Most Zombie skulls are pretty soft. Human skull standards should only be held for the very fresh. If you're up against walkers, and are in good shape, then the best thing to do is keep in open areas with a Kaiser blade (ditch hook). Guns are not for zombies, they are for people. Guns draw attention to you. They are good for holding a fort but that just draws more zombies to you and then you are in the mess that people who stay still always get into in zombie movies. Most zombies can for some reason hear just fine, so so blaring away is a bad idea and no matter how much ammo you have, it's not going to be enough. Kaiser blade dosn't run out, though you can get tired.

Ultimetly it will be all those people that play lacrosse that will make it. If they can get to a hardware store, easy pickings. But yeah, stay on the move, if it a 100 yards away, better to leave it be and stay unseen. Keep them scattered. Kill the strays.

Jack Landers said...

Cory,

Where are you getting this thing about zombie skulls being soft? We're going with the works of Max Brooks as canon here. I don't remember that being mentioned in WWZ.

I certainly agree that there are situations in which the sound of the rifle would be a liability in terms of attracting more Zs to the vicinity. But if you are fighting them at close quarters every single time with a blade on a stick, eventually you're going to get bit.

Think about situations like this: You're on the move, sacked out for the night in an abandoned commercial building with the only window boarded up and quick access to the roof. You wake up, get packed up to move out and look outside to see that there are 40 zombies between you and the open road. There are woods on all other 3 sides and who knows what's in there. This kind of situation would come up constantly as you travel hundreds of miles to the nearest 'safe zone.'

The smart thing to do would be to sit up there on the roof with your rifle and shoot each of them in the head quickly and methodically before bolting because you cannot kill 40 zombies at once with anything other than a firearm.

Sure, the shots will attract more zombies to that spot but you are about to jump on your bike and get the hell out of there anyway.


Gringo,

Those WASR AK copies are pretty neat all right. However, while you can get 5.45x39 for a fantastic price via mail order at the moment, you wouldn't be able to reliably scrounge more in a post-apocalyptic zombie scenario.

The neat thing about 7.62x39 is that so many American sporting rifles are chambered for it now that you can find the ammo at any gun shop. Remington makes it and you could probably even find it at Walmart at this point.

Good luck finding 5.45x39 anywhere except in a catalog. If you found yourself low on ammo for that WASR-2 and only halfway to the safe zone in the Rocky Mountains that you set out for on foot, you'd be screwed. The WASR-2 and the 5.45x39 cartridge are a great combination, but not in a situation where you might have to travel through hostile territory in the US for an extended period while scrounging more ammunition along the way.

If you're planning to ride the whole zombie thing out in a fortified position with supplies and ammunition to last you for years, then that WASR would make a lot more sense. Such a rifle ties you to a very specific supply line. If you're ok with that then all right.

Cory Capron said...

"Where are you getting this thing about zombie skulls being soft? We're going with the works of Max Brooks as canon here. I don't remember that being mentioned in WWZ."

Ok, by Brooks canon, probably not. But by Zombie film canon, they break like greenwear. Some zombies can take a beating, but most can't. In some cases the skull dosn't even need to be broken. Just bet those brains to slam around in their like a pinball machine and they'll be taken care of.

As for getting bit, yeah, I'd agree... to a point. A gun is only as good as who is using it, and not everyone can load a a gun in two to four seconds while in a combat zone. Same with a blade: if you don't use it right it will get you killed. For either argument to work, the person must be to some degree skilled with their weapon. That's why I said lacrosse players would do best just as someone with the millitary background to know how to use every part of a rifle as a leathal weapon woulds be most ideal. But even shooting while running is not a skill most people have. Another atvantage to a blade over a gun is that unless the gun is very high powered, it is only really good for head shots. If I cut off a zombie's leg, it's going to slow it down. In this way you can take out twenty or so easily, by keeping them scattered and picking away at them.

I'm also talking about county warfare. Not urban. Urban is different. Stay away from cities man. Total death traps. More people = more zombies. In the county you should be able to avoid dealing with more than twenty at a time if you don't make a lot of noise.

"Think about situations like this: You're on the move, sacked out for the night in an abandoned commercial building with the only window boarded up and quick access to the roof. You wake up, get packed up to move out and look outside to see that there are 40 zombies between you and the open road. There are woods on all other 3 sides and who knows what's in there. This kind of situation would come up constantly as you travel hundreds of miles to the nearest 'safe zone.'"

Sounds like a bad place to rest. But what kind of commercial building? What do I have to work with? if it's a clothing store I'd use the clothes for a fire fight. Throw shit from above. If I have chemicals all the better!

"you cannot kill 40 zombies at once with anything other than a firearm."

Give me a propane tank. Give me a gas can. Besides, I don't need to kill them all. I just need them out of my way.

"Sure, the shots will attract more zombies to that spot but you are about to jump on your bike and get the hell out of there anyway."

Oh come on man. That's too easy. I'm talking about on foot and on your own. Sure some people have bikes. A bike with a grease burnning diesel engine would be really nice to have at such a time too... or a tank. It's just a whole other game then. If you get a bike, I get a $2,400-$10,000 sword and the skill to use it like a badass.

I'm not saying no guns. I'm saying 40 zombies means at least 40 rounds for a dead shot. You're goning to need a lot of ammo if that's what you wake up to every morning. More ammo means either less food and water on you, or more weight. Speed and quick thinking are your two best weapons against a zombie. Why lose one?

Jack Landers said...

Cory,

A propane tank or a gas can does you no good. All that means is that FLAMING undead ghouls are trying to eat you. Fire only kills a zombie if it seriously damages the brain. You'd have one hell of a mess on your hands within a minute. Much better to just shoot the bastards in the head and be done with it.

Where is Not Buck Turgidson when we need him? I'd love to hear his thoughts on this important issue. His blogging days seem to be over, unfortunately.

I'm not convinced that the country would be much safer than urban areas after the initial, big panics. The zombies will follow the sound of people, who will be trying to evacuate from the cities. As they evacuate, they will also be bringing infected people with them who are hiding their bites. Infections will pop up all over the place. Within a matter of months, there will be zombies pretty much everywhere. A prudent man will need to be prepared to fight zombies in urban, suburban and rural areas, not knowing where the fight for survival and the search for supplies might take him from one week to the next.

It is definitely true that if someone doesn't know how to use a rifle, they won't have much luck trying to do so in an emergency. But the whole premise of this discussion is the question of what firearm would be the best choice for someone who knows how to use them. If you just happen to be a trained Samurai or something, use a sword. But we here are 'mericans. And Americans tend to enjoy firearms as our traditional weapon of choice. In, say, England, this would be a pointless discussion because nobody there knows a safety switch from a magazine release. We gots lots of guns here in Virginia and a lot of us know how to use 'em.

Seriously, you need to read World War Z. You can borrow my copy if you want. Brooks goes into all of this stuff in detail and it's all very well thought out. Once you accept his basic fictional premise of a zombie infection in the first place.

Gringo_Malo said...

Jack,

You wrote, "If you're planning to ride the whole zombie thing out in a fortified position with supplies and ammunition to last you for years, then that WASR would make a lot more sense."

Well, yeah, that's pretty much my plan. Three or four spam cans of 5.45x39 ought to last you through the whole zombocalypse. At $119.95 for 1080 rounds, that's only eleven cents per zombie skull. How ya gonna beat that?

Jack Landers said...

Gringo,

Then there you go. If your plan is t ride out World War Z in a prepared, fortified position then your choice of weapons and cartridges opens up a great deal. 5.45x39 would be a great choice in that case.

The surplus ammo will probably be berdan primed and in steel cases and thus difficult to reload, but if you are going to be in one prepared place then you might as well get yourself set up for reloading to stretch your supplies even farther. Contrary to popular opinion, it is possible to reload berdan primed ammunition. You just need some different tools and primers in order to do it. It's more labor intensive than reloading boxer-primed cases but I suspect that you'd have rather a lot of time on your hands anyway.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/berdanreloading/index.asp

Incidentally, a hearty round of applause to nearly everyone who has commented on this important issue both here and on Waldo's blog. Almost everyone has managed to accept the zombie premise without question and immediately move on the fun stuff.

Gringo_Malo said...

Thank you for the link to those articles on reloading Berdan cartridges, Jack. As many times as I've visited surplusrifle.com, I've somehow managed to miss that article.

elChupacabra! said...

I’ve got to throw in my $0.02 here. I agree with you that a semiautomatic rifle is the way to go, for a primary weapon at least (Although the term “Battle Rifle” technically only applies to full-caliber rifles such as .308, 30-06 and 7.62x54r, and all 5.56mm and 7.62x39mm chambered weapons are technically “Assault Rifles” due to their intermediate caliber, notwithstanding that what we’re talking about here lacks the other requirement of an assault rifle – selective fire, so these guns really fit into a different category from that, but that’s a different discussion).

In any event, first I’ve got to disagree with you about the SKS being such a great choice. If you only have $200 to defend your life with when the hordes come to get you, then fine, go with the cheapest rifle available. However, if your survival is really important to you, you’ll spend a few more bucks and either get an AK or an AR.

I also have to disagree with you about the 10-round stripper clips being more effective than the 30-round detachable box magazines found on an AK (and even the 30-round detachable box magazines for the SKS are inferior to the AK mags due to their odd appendage for latching into the receiver and their generally poorer construction). 10 rounds from a stripper clip isn’t that much better than 8 rounds from the tube of a shotgun. I know you can reload it much faster, but the last thing I want to do when I’m fighting for my life in the abandoned streets is RELOAD every 10 rounds, regardless of how quickly it’s done. I’d much rather have at least 20-30 rounds available at a time, and preferably in a box magazine.

So, as I mentioned, the AK is probably the better choice than the SKS, and maybe the best choice. It is reasonably accurate, relatively inexpensive ($350 is nothing to pay for your life man!) and extremely easy to maintain. Ammunition is plentiful and inexpensive, although the sights are terrible. If I was going with an AK for my EOTWAWKI rifle, I would like to add an Ultimak rail so I could attach a flashlight, vertical grip and a red dot sight, preferably an Aimpoint. I am also a big fan of the ARMS QD throw-lever mounts, which let you stick what you don’t need on the rifle in a pocket or pack (flashlight in the middle of the day, etc) and then quickly and easily re-attach it when it’s needed. I’d have both my optic and my flashlight set up like this.

One of the reasons I mention the red dot is my own experience shooting my custom-built AR. I can shoot well enough with my iron sights, but the red dot is much, much faster to acquire and engage targets accurately with. I wouldn’t do without one. You could even get by with one of the $50 Chinese Aimpoint copies on eBay (same for the ARMS mounts) – I’ve shot with them and they’re surprisingly good for the money, if you’re on a budget.

This leads me to my ideal set-up – and it is actually the SHTF rifle I’ve got in the cabinet, ready to go. It’s a 20” chrome-lined 1x9 twist AR with a flat-top upper receiver, a Midwest Industries free-float quad rail foreend, YHM flip-up front sight, Matech 600m flip-up rear sight, Rock River Arms 2-stage match trigger, A2-style stock, TangoDown pistol grip, battlegrip and rail guards. It wears an Aimpoint red dot optic on an ARMS QD throw-lever mount, and a Pelican LED tactical flashlight on another ARMS QD throw-lever mount with a pressure switch velcroed to the vertical grip. It hangs off of a Specter Gear QD single-point sling, which I find to be the most elegant solution for a sling. Inside the buttstock is a cleaning kit with everything I need to maintain the rifle for several weeks. Inside the vertical grips are two sets of batteries for the flashlight and four sets of batteries for the optic. The buttstock wears a magazine pouch which holds an extra 30-round magazine nicely, also helping to balance some of the weight towards the dangerous end of the rifle. Finally, I have a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40mm scope on a Larue Tactical QD mount in the rifle bag (which can be worn as a backpack for more comfortable long-distance carry) along with a Harris bipod, also on a QD mount. Aside from the 2 30-round magazines on and in the rifle, there are 4 more 30-round magazines ready, with 2 20-round magazines as well for prone shooting.

My ammunition choices are 55 grain m193 ball in the 30-round magazines, since it has a higher velocity, flatter trajectory and fragments better out of my 20” barrel. I have 68 grain Hornady Boat Tail Open Tip Match ammunition in the 20-round magazines, since they have a better ballistic coefficient and are thus more powerful and accurate at long range. The scope is zeroed for the 68 grain bullets, the red dot and irons are zeroed for the 55 grain bullets.

This rifle, set up as such, can easily and quickly be switched from a close-in utility rifle (red dot, vertical grip, flashlight, 30-round mags) to a long-range precision rifle (scope, bipod, 20-round mags). Unnecessary components can be removed and stored off the rifle, helping to save weight on the gun. With the batteries, extra mag, and cleaning kit stored in and on the gun, it can be grabbed out of the safe as a stand-alone system if there is no time for extra ammo and accessories – the rifle is completely self-sustaining for 60 rounds or 2-3 weeks, whichever comes first (I know that’s not long, but it’s better than most can say about their rifle!)

I prefer the AR over the AK for personal reasons, and feel that the set-up I have described is far superior to the SKS. It weighs only slightly more, yet is more accurate and much more versatile. It was definitely expensive, but I was able to add to it over time, buying new components like the scope and bipod when I had the money. I now have a top-notch Zombie Slayer and would recommend this setup to anyone as the best possible weapon at the end of the world.

Twitchy said...

AK, AR, SKS. Pfft. In the 'money is no object' category (and we are talking about preserving your life and the lives of your loved ones in WWZ) I'd go with an H&K SL8, with the German military handle modded on - the handle integrates a 3x zoom scope and a red dot scope. It uses 5.56mm rounds (NATO standard) which should be readily available, especially in my first port of call: the nearest military base.

Why? Two reasons; a)Gear(guns, ammo, vehicles) and b)Supplies (MRE's, clothing, boots). In WWZ military units will not have time to strip the barracks of all useful gear when bugging out to engage the Z's or protect Evac-routes.

Add to that that the SL8 can be modded further to accept 30 round magazines by Dremeling a bit off (a somewhat illegal mod in some areas), and the plastic can be died black permanently, as well as a silencer added (fortunately they are legal in some countries such as New Zealand and Switzerland,so can be readily bought prior to Z-Day).

Add to that the high reliability (being an H&K product), low recoil, and sweet tactical badass looks, I think we'd have one heck of a winner on our hands.

elburritobandito said...

elChupacabra!, you seriosly need to post a pic of that AR.

Nicely done.

Anonymous said...

I'll have to let the rest of the army know our M16 and M4's have full auto on them. We had no idea.

And as for the AK's without full auto being neutered... you are an idiot.

Full auto is trash on an assault rifle.

Anonymous said...

As I see it, why do we all presume we'd be alone? I know from my household alone, there'd be three or four full grown adult males ready and willing to arm up to fight many hordes of the undead. Surely an SKS would be the most well rounded choice (for a loner) but I think an intentionally thought out fireteam would be the way to go. One shotgunner (maybe two, as up close they can put some hurt on), several short to medium range rifleman (or pistolero's in an urban setting for household clearing) and one long-range rifleman for suburban and rural destruction of the undead. A pistolman must be confident in his abilities if he should run this setup.

All rifles should (in my opinion) be caliber .308 winchester (7.62 NATO) so that ammunition may be shared and very easily acquired. Shotguns, none other than 12 gauge 00 buckshot or 1 oz slug, alternation of shot desirable but not necessary. Steel BB is also acceptable; these guns are for clearing buildings, not clearing pastures; we're not birdhunting. Speaking of which, ever tried to shoot a bird with a rifle? Pigeon will probably be the only edible animal in the city, those shotguns will come in awefully handy after cleaning out the undead. But I digress.

For combat loadout, one gasmask w/ spare filter, one or two 9mm semiautomatic pistols (.38 special revolvers substituted) and one large canteen for every two squad members. 8 reloads of ammunition desirable, with one mule in support role with extra munitions for all, and medic kit for slight injuries. Mule will be shotgun equipped. All fireteam members will have a KABAR fighting knife (or equivalent, especially concerning quality. KABAR is expensive, but best quality for price) with serrated back, color of grip owners choice. Last but not least, for every two fireteam members, someone will have a large maglite or equivalent, with spare batteries. Leather hiking boots and leather gloves required. Leather jacket optional, but helpful against zombie bites. Essentials such as food are covered by base camp, but that's an entirely different story altogether.

Regarding my tactics, I believe thoroughly in a small fireteam's redundancy. Two shotgunners, two intermediaries, one leader/mule and one long-ranger. In the event the long range messenger is injured, the leader can easily pick up the role, or if the leader is hurt, his load can be split. Each shotgunner will stick together as a two man team. Same with every other position, they are miniteams who support each other. In fact, two small 6 man squads can work together, staying abreast of each other, or one behind another closely as support, taking turns raiding homes for zombie clearing and supply acquisition. You are no longer humans at this point, you are zombie hunters/apocolypse survivalists, and your job is to destroy all of the undead sons-of-bitches, however you must do it.

Jon


P.S. Melee weapons are a bad idea for anything other than a backup. The only weapon a zombie can employ is its blood, teeth and other bodily secretions. Why needlessly place yourself in range of them? However, I do agree with the statement that if its 100 yds away, avoid it; that's prudent. The only time you'd wanna take him/her/it out is if it's along your path ahead of you, its "death" bringing out its buddies and forgiving their locations. They heard the gunshot too.


Jeez this is crazy talk. Enough, good night.

Anonymous said...

Ok- slightly different aproach but here we go.

A zombie is f'ing stupid, it would walk twords you slowly, moaning like a dumass- killing it in close combat wouldn't be to hard, lets say some elbow long chainmail gloves (they use them at deli's) and a large kukri- machete, heavy tip will allow it to be quickly brought down destroying the brain. I think a fit male would beable to drop 10 or so by themselves, using hit and runs as to make sure you are dealing with very few at a time. A group of maybe 3 or so able fighters and you have it made

The smart thing to do would be to travle by country, a gun with easily found amunition is a must. Take a commonly found hunting rifle with a detachable glass scope and i think your set.

Anonymous said...

I think a lot of you guys forget that not only will there be zombies, but other survivors as well. Some of which will be double the threat of any zombie.

Theres gonna be a buffet of nut jobs, shooting at anything that moves, looting, raping, burning, ect. People that will kill you for your fancy gear and weapons.

Barry Geipel said...

When the SHTF and reliability is key, look to Zionist technology. For me there is only one choice: the Galil ARM in 5.56mm NATO. With reliable 50 round mags, you can keep the Zombie hoards at bay.

I one or more of each of the weapons talked about here - many have merits, but in the end, one will stand above and be the one that I grab - That will be the Galil.

Long Nguyen said...

real all of what you guys have said and i got to say i love it all...well kinda. i'm not gonna say whose right and wrong but you gotta remember when choosing rifles and ammo, you gotta gotta consider gear and clothing.

SHOTGUNS

For those that say the shotgun does the trick you have to consider, "where are you keeping the spare shells?" this isnt the wild west, you cant just find a belt with premade shotgun loops already built in. in other words, shotgun shells could only be kept in jacket pockets. And if thats the case,

1.You couldnt fit many - Because how many jackets can you find with pockets that wide to hold more then 20 - 30 shells? I mean yeah you can put a shitload of shells in a plastic baggie or backpack, but how are you gonna reach em in time?

2.You couldnt reload as fast - I don't know how many of you can do a speed reload for a shotgun, but let me tell you. Its hard. I can do it because of my Marines MP training, but still, all it is, is putting a shell into the ejection port, hitting the bolt release (or on pumps pulling the handle forward) and then manually loading the rest of the rounds. Only cuts off about 2-4 seconds for the FIRST shell.

3.You can't run AND reload. - My brother bought me this AWESOME green Swish? Army jacket. It has 2 giant pockets in the front and 2 giant pockets in the back, all with buttons. If you could get ahold of a jacket like this, you can hold tons of shells. But even with this jacket, how are you going to run for you life, unlach the button, reach into the pocket, pull out a shell out,load your SINGLE shell and repeat? its too much. Your shells would spill everywhere from running or from you pulling out one shell too quick...

Assault Rifles

Real quick, this here is my primary choice for a firearm. And my choice for that firearm being...oh yes....the M16a4. Because thats how marines roll. Now just hear me out ok? Doesn't anyone else find it funny how max brooks says to stay away from M16s and its cousins alltogether yet says that a semi auto like the m1 carbine is a good choice...? Or how he says that the M16's 5.56 aka the .223 round is infiour? Yet he then goes on to say that the .22 round is deceit? Uhhh...the .223 is a .22 round...only bigger. ok on we go

Assault rifles have either long straight magazines or banana shaped ones. And because of that you can hold many, espeically if you can get your hands on the M16's magazines. Because finding gear to hold them in is easy. You can hit up your local airsoft store for Military grade load bearing vests. And then your problem of how you're gonna carry all these magizines is solved. as a matter of fact, all 3 of your problems are solved because with the load bearing vest you can carry tons of ammo, reload just a fast, maybe faster (with a load bearing vest i could reload a M16 in 2 or less seconds) and you could run and reload just as easy if you were standing. Hell if you can get ahold of a load bearing vest (which you can, you can get them at airsoft stores, they sell better ones then i was issued!) you could carry a pistol too!

Pistols
Only problem i have with pistols being mentioned is some might say they are too weak. Some would say choosing a 9mm Beretta would be a dumb choice. On a human yes, on a zombie? Hell no. Its light, accurate, and has tons of rounds, 15 + 1 in the chamber for the Beretta. Weak round you say? Alright, just buy hollow points. Problem solved. Hollow points are MEANT to be used for close quarters anyways. Can't find any and all you got are ball point? Even better. Make yourself a hollowpoint round by taking knife and hammering a x into the bullet head (gotta be careful) and now you got a dum dum round. Which is a home made hollowpoint. Soldiers in vietnam used to do it because the ballpoint rounds didnt have the mushroom stopping power hollow tips did. The only problem i have with pistols are revolvers, looks cool, fun to shoot, strong, accurate, but they're like mimi shotguns, they just dont hold enough and are too hard to reload, and the ammo space and yeah....

wow

that was fun. hope you guys like my little speil on things...................jack please dont tear up my options too bad.

Anonymous said...

shot guns

have clips
http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/italia.jpg

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/saiga_12k_tromix.jpg

as far as the different loads buck shot is 000 buckshot can be found in many stores and is quite large
http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/10451i_ts.JPG?cell=130,130&cvt=jpeg

while Flechette rounds arnt in every store they would also do alot of damage
http://weapons.travellercentral.com/ammo/shotgun_flechette.gif

here is a ballistic report of buck shot http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/12%20Gauge%20No%204%20Buckshot.jpg

and some of flechette

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4589/flechette1uv4.jpg

http://www.brassfetcher.com/images/12%20gauge%20flechette%20block.JPG

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3:39,

The M-16 and M-4s that our military uses all have full-auto capable receivers. Each variant may be set up for single or double round taps and the selector switch may even just be 2 position in some cases, but the weapon is inherently designed to be able to fire on full auto.

Anonymous said...

a saiga 12 would be a great weapon for this scenario. Semi auto 12 gauge with up 30 round clips/drums. i think there is a 50 drum available. fast firing and easy to reload. a bit heavy i suppose but with the right slugs it could be accurate up to 50 yards.

Anonymous said...

I see few people here understand the first rule of the Zombacalypse. The Zombies aren't your enemy, their an obstacle. It's the people who'll kill you, even if you're smart, and well armed. On Z-day I'm rounding my family up into a vehicle and shooting my way out of town, through living or dead, blue, green, I don't give a shit what colors I see, on Zday it's every man for himself. So I hope you're all ready to kill regular old living folks, and plenty of them, "innocent" and otherwise, because I tell you what I'll look pretty damn innocent right up till I draw my crappy .38 SNS and put one through the back of your head. I can't wait to get my hands on some of yall's sweet rigs. I'mma laugh and laugh and laugh. Do me a favor, carry plenty of ammo, wouldya? ;D

niellwyn said...

I agree the the M1 Garand is probably too heavy and bulky to consider, and its ammunition, while powerful, is not as economical in either cost or space as the .22 or other smaller rounds, but the fact that people will also be a hazard along with the zombies makes a powerful round attractive.

With that in mind, I would suggest the M1 Carbine as a definite option. The M1 Carbine was developed specifically because the Garand was so heavy, and weighs under five pounds. The M1 Carbine is quite easy to carry, and can be made even lighter and smaller if one acquires one with a folding stock. The powerful round it shoots will pass right through car doors, bricks, and even small tree trunks, so it is more than capable of a good headshot for taking out Zs, and will take care of human assailants quite handily. The fact that it ignores quite a bit of the more common types of cover is also a plus, since human assailants such as bandits probably will not be attacking from an artificially fortified or entrenched position.

Henry said...

The m1 carbine is clearly the best rifle. It is the easiest rifle to clear a jam from, bar none. If you have a lever rifle in 44 mag or .357, say, you only get nine or ten rounds, and the thing can jam up so bad you have to disassemble it to get it unstuck.

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